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marshallh
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Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:39 am

Re: N64 HDMI converter thread

Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:32 pm

Like you said running NTSC software on PAL consoles "works" -- it runs too fast - this also manifests in audio, which is also programmed by the game and is based on the video clock. Some games do not refill the audio buffer in a deterministic way which results in a quiet pop/clicking.
Additionally RDP fill is affected causing slight timing errors that can accumulate, for example some Turok 2 cutscenes do not display at the correct time, Banjo Kazooie intro would probably be slightly mistimed, and so on. Running my MGC demo on PAL causes it to fall out of sync by several second by the time the demo finishes.


N64 does not generate strictly NTSC compliant timings... it's either too fast or too slow. So in buffered mode you will get a single duped or dropped frame every 6-10 seconds. You have to be watching very closely before you notice it.
When you are outputting 60hz, and the game produces 50hz, or vice versa, the UltraHDMI OSD will let you know - it shows a *!* in the corner of the screen when you have it pulled up.

qwhacker
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 12:40 am

Re: N64 HDMI converter thread

Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:47 pm

I'm interested in seeing a comparison between Conker's Bad Fur Day running on Rare Replay for the Xbone vs N64 cartridge with a modded system. I assume the Rare Replay version will look a bit better as they probably did some tweaks with whatever emulation method they programmed in, but would it be a huge difference?

Anyone able to check this out?
Last edited by qwhacker on Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

inspectah
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:23 am

Re: N64 HDMI converter thread

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:17 am

Like you said running NTSC software on PAL consoles "works" -- it runs too fast - this also manifests in audio, which is also programmed by the game and is based on the video clock. Some games do not refill the audio buffer in a deterministic way which results in a quiet pop/clicking.
Additionally RDP fill is affected causing slight timing errors that can accumulate, for example some Turok 2 cutscenes do not display at the correct time, Banjo Kazooie intro would probably be slightly mistimed, and so on. Running my MGC demo on PAL causes it to fall out of sync by several second by the time the demo finishes.
So that means getting a NTSC console is still the best method (with 64drive).
Hmmm

Ewano
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:31 am

Re: N64 HDMI converter thread

Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:14 am

Like you said running NTSC software on PAL consoles "works" -- it runs too fast - this also manifests in audio, which is also programmed by the game and is based on the video clock. Some games do not refill the audio buffer in a deterministic way which results in a quiet pop/clicking.
Does a similar effect happen when playing PAL code on NTSC hardware?

If so would an ideal solution to be able to switch between the two crystals to alter to the correct base clock speed depending on the version of game code you're running?

rephlex303
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:35 pm

Re: N64 HDMI converter thread

Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:41 pm

Does anyone know if its possible to replace the clock (and adjust the multiplier) to make a pal console run at exactly the same speed as a ntsc one?

Ewano
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:31 am

Re: N64 HDMI converter thread

Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:45 pm

There is a discussion about it going on in another part of the forum.

Well sort of. The discussion is actually about modding an N64 to be truly "Any Region" which involves on the electronics side of things a few mods:

1) Taking the PIF's from both an NTSC and a PAL unit, then putting them into a circuit that can switch over all the inputs/outputs depending on which region cart you want to play.

2) Taking the crystals from those machines that are used to drive the clock generators and putting them into a cicuit that can be switched between.

3) Creating a circuit that can toggle the way that the clock generator chip/chips (apparently there were two types used depending on the model of n64) calculate the video/audio timing for NTSC or PAL.

You can read the whole thread for more info, but essentially that's the summary minus the sweat and tears.

If using a 64Drive you don't need to worry about the PIF elements as long as the CIC in your 64Drive is from the same region as your N64. Basically this is the console part of the region locking system.

So that leaves 2 & 3 which are the steps required to make an N64 run at the correct speed at either of the two "region" settings.

Well that's the gist of what I've read about the subject...

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marshallh
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Re: N64 HDMI converter thread

Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:32 pm

Just swap the 17mhz crystal for a 14.31818mhz one (easily available from lots of vendors or even scrap PCI cards, etc)
Then configure the pin on your clock generator (either two MX8330s or a combo MX8350) to run either NTSC or PAL for the right ratio.

Your analog video output will now be broken though - unless you have a MAV-NUS which has a region pin you can set to fix this.

inspectah
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:23 am

Re: N64 HDMI converter thread

Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:47 pm

I have a question about the Retro Mode of the UltraHDMI.

Will it apply settings to look like a good TV or mimic a bad TV like the CRT mode in Rare Replay?
Because settings like the Tube CRT HV Bloom mimic "cheap CRT TVs".

Which are the best settings to mimic the picture of a hypothetical "best CRT in the world" (PVM RGB Monitor?)?

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Tim.
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:56 am

Re: N64 HDMI converter thread

Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:12 pm

Marshall,

Do we have a list of installers out yet? So far BadAssConsoles is the only installer mentioned.

RGBSource
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:02 pm

Re: N64 HDMI converter thread

Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:17 pm

I have a question about the Retro Mode of the UltraHDMI.

Will it apply settings to look like a good TV or mimic a bad TV like the CRT mode in Rare Replay?
Because settings like the Tube CRT HV Bloom mimic "cheap CRT TVs".

Which are the best settings to mimic the picture of a hypothetical "best CRT in the world" (PVM RGB Monitor?)?
It's kind of like the XRGB-mini, but with more CRT like effects that are variable. The user manual for the UltraHDMI explains a number of the settings, but I don't believe Marshall has released it yet? It doesn't appear to simulate a shadow mask, so it's more aperture grill-ish (Sony tubes). The screen expansion/contraction has 3 levels of intensity (including off), and there's a serration setting for how blurry you want it. I haven't tried the Rare Replay yet on the Xbone, so I can't compare.
Do we have a list of installers out yet? So far BadAssConsoles is the only installer mentioned.
I'm technically an installer and did not explicitly request to be listed. I'm only dealing locally (Seattle area) for right now and may expand in the future. I'm really loving the Integer+ Sharp Pixels scaling option I requested. :mrgreen: The de-blur Marshall implemented is epic!

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